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Гиды в России не нужны? 
10.7.2009 «Гиды в России не нужны?» Greta
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Внимательно читаю тут на Риске все посты, связанные с обсуждением гидов в России. Меня эта тема волнует, поскольку по сути меня можно тоже назвать гидом, только работаю я с клиентом не индивидуально а коллективом. Что должен делать гид? Водить клиента за деньги на вершины, обеспечивая ему при этом необходимый уровень безопасности. Что делаю я? По сути то же самое вожу клиентов организованных в группы на альпинистские маршруты, обеспечивая им при этом необходимый уровень безопасности + пытаюсь все это впихать в рамки правил ФАР. Занимаюсь я этим 9 лет и, следовательно, накопился кой какой опыт, и возникли ряд проблем и вопросов, которыми хочу с вами поделиться.

Вопрос первый кто такие альпинисты в Росси?

По закону получается, что в Росси альпинист может быть только в трех видах

  • альпинист действительный член ФАР напрямую (ИндоЧлен) или через коллектив (Региональную ФА или клуб).
  • промышленный – альпинист получивший корочки в соответствии с законом
  • иностранный альпинист оформленный по законам и правилам своей страны.

Но есть еще четвертый вид который не интересует ФАР, не имеет ни какого отношения к промальпу и является гражданином России, назовем его условно восходитель.

Вопрос второй кто такой восходитель, если он и сколько его?

Восходителем я называю человека, которому интересно подниматься на вершины, зачем, почему, для чего это его проблемы и они сейчас за рамками темы обсуждения. Решение кажется очевидным, хочешь подниматься на вершины? Иди в клуб, секцию, езжай, в конце концов, в лагерь и все проблемы. Но это не всегда возможно.

- Посмотрите на сайте нашего клуба на списки отделений, из каких городов к нам едут люди (Междуреченск, Красноводск, Сальск) какие клубы альпинизма и секции? Там зачастую просто спортзалов то нет.

  • что бы пойти по правилам на первую вершину человек должен пройти 20 дневный курс обучения. У многих есть столько времени на отдых?
  • в альплагерях по сути сейчас нет ни какой спортивной работы, отделения комплектуются на коммерческой основе и часто состоят из участников разного уровня, деньги берут большие и ни факт что найдется инструктор.
  • поехать на сборы с каким то клубом? А многие рискнут поехать в уже сложившийся коллектив со своими традициями, правилами. Да и у клубов свои как правило более жесткие чем в лагерях планы, им нужны в первую очередь результаты СВОИХ членов.
  • Сюда можно добавить еще возрастных участников, которым уже немного за…и тех кто оставил спортивный альпинизм много лет назад, тягаться с молодыми спортсменами или начинать все заново им как то не ловко и не охота.

Исходя из выше сказанного вырисовывается такая картина – Восходитель это человек который по каким то причинам не может (не хочет) заниматься в секции или клубе. Не может или (не хочет) обучатся альпинизму по каким то там программа, не имеет желания (возможности) приезжать в горы на три недели. Не имеет достаточно средств на альплагерь, да и рисковать там не хочет, не любить случайные коллективы. Человек с возрастом за….Есть ли такие люди в России? Я думаю ответ очевиден…

Я лично знаю десятки таких людей, и многих из них уважаю гораздо больше чем всяких разных официальных альпинистов с куче желтых штанов.

Много ли их. Естественно подсчет их ни кто не вел, и можно судить по косвенным признакам.

  • во первых все кто был в последние годы на приюте 11 имеет представление какое там соотношение официальных альпинистов и просто желающих войти, я думаю если к восходителям причислить туристские группы получится соотношение 10 % альпинистов 90% восходителей.
  • во вторых всем кто руководит в последние годы альпсборми я думаю знакома ситуация когда в лагерь приходят люди и интересуются а нельзя ли с ними подняться на какую ни будь вершину. Лично ко мне каждые сборы приходят десятки таких людей соотношение примерно в 5 раз больше чем я привожу на сборы.
  • и немного последней статистики. Так получилось что в мае на Фиште я имел доступ к информации егерей о регистрации всех ночующих на приюте. За две недели через приют прошло 286 человек, из них 63 руководителя. Ко мне с просьбой завести на Фишт или за консультацией о маршруте подошли я думаю 60 руководителей из этих 63.

Условно можно прикинуть

На Эльбрус летом ежедневно поднимаются около 100 человек за 3 летних месяца условно это 10000 человек (для удобства) = 9 000 восходителей.

Мы проводим 5 сборов за сезон и к нам обращаются примерно 200 человек каждые сборы = 1000 восходителей.

Итого цифра в 10 000 восходителей только на Кавказе мне честно говоря не кажется преувеличенной. И если учесть что благодаря ИндоЧленству мы теперь точно знаем сколько официальных альпинистов в России – 500 человек и 10 000. Хм…выводы делайте сами…

Вопрос третий кому нужен этот восходитель?

Ну тут все просто – мне и всем тем кто сейчас у нас в стране оказывает услуги гида. (Для плевков – я себя гидом не считаю и ни когда себя так не называю) За счет этих людей мы зарабатываем деньги, богатеем и процветаем. Наши задачи просты, найти восходителя, сделать ему заманчивое предложение, удовлетворить его потребности. Как все это делается тема отдельного поста.

Нужна ли гидам какая то сертификация? Какие то правила и рамки?

Я думаю что если учесть то что за несколько лет что гиды предлагают свои услуги но так и не создали ни какой организации и общих правил. Ответ очевиден. Почему нет? Причин много но думаю что основная в мутной воде ловить рыбу проще.

Нужна ли Восходителю какая то сертификация?

Я думаю что если учесть то что сегодня восходитель может судить о навыках и умениях того кто назвался для него гидом только со слов это гида, да по бумажкам не известной ему организации (ФАР) ответ очевиден.

И так исходя и того что восходителей в России достаточно много т.е. спрос есть, предложения на рынке носят по сути не законный характер, я все время говорил о том что система услуг гида в России нужна.

  • для того что бы узаконить деятельность услуг гида.
  • для того что бы клиент имел возможность найти подходящую ему услугу гида в одном месте.
  • для того что бы клиент имел представление о уровне гида и гарантии на его услуги.

Как с моей точки зрения это должно выглядеть?

  1. Создается какая то общественная организация, например Русский Горный Клуб (РГК)
  2. В РГК разрабатывается программа сертификации гидов (сертификат может получить любой желающий сдавший экзамен по теории и практике. За деньги естественно.
  3. В РГК создается школа гидов после которой можно получить сертификат Тоже за деньги.
  4. Проталкивается закон о запрете работы в турагентстве не сертифицированных гидов.
  5. Проталкивается закон о лицензировании частной деятельности гидов. Лицензию без сертификата получить не возможно.

ИМХО все счастливы….

Что нам предлагают сейчас?

Правление Федерации погонщиков верблюдов (ФПВ) наверное после перепоя решило что раз человек с рюкзаком отдаленно напоминает верблюда. Значит, он к ним имеет прямое отношения. Исходя только из этого он ФПВ решило.

  1. Сертификаций водителей верблюдов для восходителей будем заниматься мы.
  2. Сертификаций будут заниматься на манер западных водителей верблюдов и по западным расценкам.
  3. Погонщик верблюда и есть готовый водитель верблюда для восходителей.

У меня лично сначала возникает вопрос нафига нам эта (ФПВ)? Может они все же обратят внимание на проблемы своих погонщиков? И не будут лезть туда к чему имеет только отдаленное отношение? А уж потом можно обсуждать какими методами и способами решать проблемы.

Извиняюсь что слишком много букв.

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zxcvb1 Re: Гиды в России не нужны?

Регистрация: 17.1.2011
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Добавил вас в закладки
» 17.1.11 17:39 Профайл

vettalino Re: Гиды в России не нужны?

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» 2.5.11 10:04 Профайл Посетить веб-сайт

dudunice Re: Гиды в России не нужны?

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vojage Re: Гиды в России не нужны?

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При заграничных путешествиях или осматривая иностранные достопримечательности гиды несомненно нужны.
» 22.3.12 08:19 Профайл Посетить веб-сайт

Name Re: Гиды в России не нужны?

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Спасибо, интересно.
» 4.4.12 17:42 Профайл

Lorti Re: Гиды в России не нужны?

Регистрация: 28.9.2012
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спасибо, много полезной информации. добавил в закладки

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» 28.9.12 11:14 Профайл Посетить веб-сайт

camsip Re: Гиды в России не нужны?

Регистрация: 22.11.2012
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Откуда: Россия, город Краснодар

Как это гиды не нужны? А по достопримечательностям туристов кто водить будет? Ведь залог успешной эксурсии по большей части зависит от гида. Без них, никак!:) От гидов зависит туристическая экономика страны

[ Редактировано camsip Включено 22.11.12 19:40 ]

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» 22.11.12 19:39 Профайл

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» 13.7.15 02:43 Профайл Посетить веб-сайт

oakleysunglasses Re: Гиды в России не нужны?

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